japanese zero vs spitfire


Products of vastly different design philosophies, the Seafire F III and the A6M Zero were never intended to meet in combat, and never should have. Discussion in 'Air War in the Pacific' started by scrounger, Apr 3, 2011. Climbing away was also not an option, as the Spitfire’s climb superiority was too slight (not to mention the slow acceleration problem once again). The conclusions of Wawn and Jackson only corroborated the earlier evaluation conducted by 1 Fighter Wing HQ[6] after combat experience over Darwin, which found that the Spitfire had a higher maximum speed, that it was more manoeuvrable at high speed, and that it could be dived to a greater speed. F8F vs Zero a6m-zero. To make matters worse, the Japanese had a fighter aircraft which could ‘dance’ even better than the Spitfire, a fact which was very well known even at the time, and about which the newly-arriving Spitfire pilots were warned. Above 20 000 feet, so long as the Spitfire started with a 3-4000 feet height advantage, the Spitfire could make dive and zoom attacks with impunity. As was already well known, the Zero had all the advantages in combat manoeuvrability at slower speeds. ... have to include the Spitfire, the Mustang, the Bf 109, the Zero, Corsair, and the Yak-3. Zero. Otherwise, the Zero could follow the Spitfire through any manoeuvre below 220 knots, and could use its slow turning advantage to get onto the Spitfire’s tail after 2 ½ hard turns. This knee-jerk reaction negative impression ignored the P-47’s massively powerful Pratt and Whitney R-2800 engine and its associated turbocharger, which gave the big American machine superior performance in the tactically-critical altitude band above 25 000 feet. This thread is archived. P-38 vs Fw-190 p-38-lightning. Even the Polish PZL P.48 had a great power-to-weight ratio. It was not hardly a fair match. Thus it is doubly ironic that the Spitfire’s reputation would habitually be established by reference to archaic, non-tactical criteria, and that the new Japanese opponent would trump every one of the Spitfire’s purported trademark virtues: in effect, ‘whatever you can do, I can do better’. © 2020 - Comparison - BVR - Dogfight. The Ausies Held the skies but at great cost in fighters. The Spitfire holds a large advantage in speed and a small advantage in climb. Reflecting this set of opposite characteristics was the fact that the Zero’s standard evasive manoeuvre was the very opposite to that of the Spitfire – upwards rather than downwards, in the form either of a climbing turn or a vertical aerobatic manoeuvre like a loop, stall turn or Immelmann. share. Indeed, in these respects it had similar tactical characteristics to other early-war allied fighter aircraft - such as the P-39, P-40, and F4F Wildcat – in that it possessed a clear superiority in one tactical mode: diving fast into the attack and then performing rolling downward evasion. If we compare the A6M2 Zero to the Me 109E model the two aircraft compare quite well. However, despite the gloomy overall assessment provided by the comparative tests, the relative situation was not unfavourable to the Spitfire. In that timeframe I'm putting up the A6M3 vs. the Spitfire Mk. save hide report. Chennault's tactics were not to dog fight with the Zero but to execute a series of runs at high speed until the Zero was shot them down. The stall speeds cited apply to straight and level flight at 1G – hardly a realistic scenario in combat, where pilots would typically stall out of accelerated turns. Your email address will not be published. The recommended evasive tactic when under attack was to break downwards into a vertical dive at full power, while yawing the aircraft violently by uncoordinated use of the rudder and/or ailerons to put the Zero pilot off his aim. The unanimous conclusion of Wawn and Jackson was that ‘the Spitfire is outclassed by the Hap at all heights up to 20,000 feet’. F4U vs Zero a6m-zero. This meant it would be very difficult for a Spitfire to get a shot at a manoeuvring Zero. F4U vs Zero a6m-zero. 81% Upvoted. F-35 Lightning II vs Chengdu J-10; Cancel Reply. Bf-109 vs Zero a6m-zero. At the beginning of the Pacific War no Allied fighter was a match for the Zero. CAPTCHA Code * Recent Posts. In short, it was too easy for a Zero to evade a Spitfire at medium altitudes and below, by simply performing any vertical manoeuvre or hard turn. Your email address will not be published. Moreover, given the tactical situation of intercepting bomber formations, the Spitfires would generally be coming down in a high speed dive, which was also advantageous. 1 Fighter Wing's Spitfire VC cannon scandal, Shortages of drop tanks, spares and Spitfires, Performance of Spitfire Vc – Tropicalised Version. F8F vs Zero f4u-corsair. Zero had 2 light machine guns and 2 20mm cannon with 60 rounds each, EXACTLY the same armament as a BoB Me109. Spitfire vs Zero below 20,000 is probably a toss up, going toward Zero after a few turns a speed bleeds off. Spitfire is about 25 mph faster and will climb faster but the Zero can climb much steeper. This was a product of the Japanese machine’s superior power loading and lower wing loading. The Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa (隼, "Peregrine falcon", "Army Type 1 Fighter" (一式戦闘機)) was a single-engine land-based tactical fighter used by the Imperial Japanese Army Air Force in World War II.. Be one of the first 73 people to sign up with this link and get 20% off your subscription with Brilliant.org! The chief difference lay in its more powerful Mitsubishi Sakae 21 engine, which developed 1130 hp (as compared with 940 hp in the Model 21). Leave A Reply. Both suffer from heavy ailerons at high speed limiting roll rate. Your email address will not be published. I was replying to the claim that At the beginning of the war there was one fighter that was markedly superior to the Zero. Cancel Reply. They found that the Zero had a lower rated altitude than the Spitfire, 16 000 feet against 21 000 feet, which delivered the Spitfire a good speed advantage at height – it was 20 knots faster at 26 000 feet. The P-40 Warhawk and A6M Zero were two prominent U.S. and Japanese fighters at the beginning of the Second World War. Leave A Reply. The only offensive solution for the Spitfire was to attack from a height advantage, to maintain a high IAS on the firing pass, to fight on the dive and zoom, and to pull high speed G. Slowing down, or being caught while flying slowly, would clearly be very dangerous, for the Spitfire would be unable to evade. Spitfire vs Zero Stats. The 80th Fighter Squadron has twice encountered “Tony” type fighters … F-35 Lightning II vs F/A-18E Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II vs F-16E Fighting Falcon BLOCK 60, (A) 8 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. Other than the downward break, no other evasive manoeuvre by the Spitfire was likely to work, although a vertically-banked climbing turn was difficult for the Zero to follow. CAPTCHA Code * Recent Posts. Stay fast and kick butt if you fight a zero. The A6M was designated as the Mitsubishi Navy Type 0 carrier fighter (零式艦上戦闘機, rei-shiki-kanjō-sentōki), or the Mitsubishi A6M Rei-sen. Spitfire Mk. On top of that, it shared with the F4F the ability to climb above 30 000 feet – the tactical vantage point from which attacks were delivered. Certainly, the Spitfire's armament was good and it was an excellent gun platform. However, it is odd that they had continued to esteem these qualities over those of other fighters in spite of the fact that they were of only secondary importance tactically. The A6M5 is a 5.0. Alongside the P-40’s trickier handling near the ground, Truscott admitted that it had good combat characteristics, but churlishly complained that you couldn’t ‘make it dance’ like a Spitfire. Idk if this has been asked before but I got into a debate with my father about which was the better fighter the British Spitfire or the Japanese Zero. Bf-109 vs Zero a6m-zero. Spitfire Vs. CAPTCHA Code * Recent Posts. Neither aircraft had a good roll rate at high speed, due to their ailerons locking almost solid in the airflow. But a Fw-190 spitfire's fight. Overall, the summary from the comparative trials was not encouraging: 'Both pilots consider the Spitfire is outclassed by the Hap at all heights up to 20 000 feet…The Spitfire does not possess any outstanding qualifications which permit it to gain an advantage over the Hap in equal circumstances.'[5]. All Rights Reserved. Zero, also called Mitsubishi A6M or Navy Type 0, fighter aircraft, a single-seat, low-wing monoplane used with great effect by the Japanese during World War II.Designed by Horikoshi Jiro, it was the first carrier-based fighter capable of besting its land-based opponents. The height advantage of the Spitfire VC was also shown by the British machine’s superior operational ceiling. Tactics of Japanese “Tony” Type Fighter 1. Given that the strong fighter and AA defence over Darwin forced the Japanese to penetrate Australian airspace above 25 000 feet, the Zeros were thereby forced to play to the Spitfire’s strengths. As a result of this structural lightness, the Zero had both a superior power loading (4.5 lb/hp versus 5.6 lb/hp) and a lower wing loading (22 lb/ft2 versus 28 lb/ft2). The film named ‘Eternal Zero’ is about a fictional Japanese pilot, Kyuzo Miyabe, and his career flying through the skies during World War 2. Obviously, the Zero also stalled out under G, but the tests showed it to have superb handling characteristics in hard turns, with no tendency to spin out of high speed stalls (implying that it was superior to the Spitfire in this respect). Japanese Zero vs Spitfire vs FW 190 Thread starter Chiron; Start ... Spitfire is about 25 mph faster and will climb faster but the Zero can climb much steeper. That was the P-38 Lighting. Re: Japanese thought on the P-38 vs. the Zero Page 2 of 3 < Prev 1 2 3 Next > syscom3 Member. The Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" was a long-range fighter aircraft formerly manufactured by Mitsubishi Aircraft Company, a part of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, and operated by the Imperial Japanese Navy from 1940 to 1945. The Zero stalled at only 55 knots, whereas in clean configuration the Spitfire stalled at 73. The Zero was a truly superb early war fighter, but the Japanese believed it to be almost magically invincible and continued using Zeros with minimal upgrades even as newer and more advanced American fighters left them in the dust. This was established beyond any doubt during comparison trials in August 1943 between one of the RAAF’s Spitfire VCs and a Model 32 Zero that had been captured in New Guinea and rebuilt at Eagle Farm airfield in Brisbane. Along with the Bf 109E, the Zero was the most heavily armed fighter of its time and introduced the use of cannons in fighter planes. The 1130hp of the Model 32’s Sakae 21 engine was quite comparable to the 1210 hp of the Spitfire’s Merlin 46, but the Model 32’s weight was much less – 5155 lb compared to the Spitfire’s 6883 lbs. Joined: ... 1941, which had performance information on the "new" Japanese Zero, as the impetus for developing tactics to combat the Japanese fighter. This helps to explain the high incidence of Spitfires stalling and spinning out of combat turns over Darwin in 1943. In contrast, the Spitfire was intended to operate from established airfields, and needed to be adapted as a carrier fighter. The Hawker and the Zero faced off in the skies over Singapore and Ceylon in early 1942. The Vought F4U Corsair is an American fighter aircraft that saw service primarily in World War II and the Korean War. In the early years, there can be only one choice. The latter was only 11 knots less than the Spitfire’s maximum speed at that height (at the emergency power settings of 3000 rpm and plus 2 ½ pounds boost), so it is clear that as height increased, the pilot found himself stuck in an increasingly narrow corner of the flight envelope, until any attempt to pull G would result in an instant high speed stall. They found that the Zero had a lower rated altitude than the Spitfire, 16 000 feet against 21 000 feet, which delivered the Spitfire a good speed advantage at height – it was 20 knots faster at 26 000 feet. The pattern established in these tests confirmed the findings of operational experience over Darwin, where the Spitfires were always able to dominate the upper height band without Japanese challenge. In comparative tests at 17 000 feet, the Spitfire was again unable to safely draw away from the Zero. The Japanese had the N1K2-J Shiden-kai, Ki-84 Frank, and the Ki-96 (great power to weight!). Mitsubishi A6M Zero. Known to the allies by the reporting name ‘Hap’ to distinguish it from the round-wingtipped ‘Zeke’, the Model 32 was an improved model over the original Model 21 with which the Imperial Japanese Navy had fought its 1941-42 air offensives. Being able to fly more slowly while still under complete control meant the Zero could fly tighter turns without stalling out. The only practical firing opportunity for Spitfire pilots would come in a bounce. The Japanese withdrew after urgent calls from Guadalcanal. 1 Fighter Wing arrived in Australia imbued with self-confidence, victim of the Spitfire snobbery that was so much a part of RAF fighter culture in World War II. A zero vs a spitfire I would like to see that to make a prediction I believe a Zero has got the SPit. Zero – by Greg_P . Wanted to know what you guys all thought. The Model 32 Zero, with its squared-off wingtips, was regularly encountered both over Darwin and New Guinea in 1943. It followed that the only sensible offensive tactics were the dive from height followed by a zoom climb for a re-attack. 5 comments. These differing technical characteristics determined the pattern of relative performance between the two machines, as shown by the tactical trials conducted by two experienced RAAF fighter pilots in flying trials conducted over three flying days[2]. Thanks. Bf-109 vs Zero fw-190-wurger. F-35 Lightning II vs Chengdu J-10; F-35 Lightning II vs MiG-35; The superiority of the Spitfire’s ceiling is corroborated by its 5000 feet higher rated altitude, by 1 Fighter Wing’s demonstrated tactical employment of the Spitfire at heights up to 33 500 feet, and by the Zero pilots’ avoidance of the height band above 30 000. Spitfire vs. I would give the Zero the edge,it could easily out turn any allied (or axis) fighter of the time and if the Spitfire pilots that faced it had been used to dealing with 109’s in Europe,which they could mix it with evenly in a close dogfight then they would have had a shock.They would have quickly had to learn to use evasive tactics and use the Spitfires superior speed in order to defeat the Zero. F8F vs Zero Prev Next . Niether side was victorious. AVIATIA - Aircraft specifications and performance - comparison site. The A6M2 was joined by the A6M3 vs the P-40E joined by the Spit Vc Trop. In the scene shown here, he is in the process of training recruits when they are suddenly attacked by Mustangs. It was also respectably fast for 1940, with a top speed of 331 MPH. P-47 vs F4U Prev Next . By contrast, the Zero’s lighter weight meant that it would always be superior in all tight manoeuvres. F-35 Lightning II vs Chengdu J-10; Although he came to accept the P-40 as a ‘necessary evil’ in the SWPA,[1] in making this largely adverse judgment he ignored the American machine’s tactically advantageous features - like its powerful and reliable armament and its excellent rolling manoeuvrability at high speed (in this respect much better than the Spitfire). Another showdown between the Zero and Spitfire was Darwin. Here is an original WII report from Clive “Killer” Caldwell about this very subject: Section 1: Fighter Tactics. Nonetheless, it was a Model 32 Zero that was captured and rebuilt, permitting the trials to occur in August 1943. Spitfire V mentions "FW-190 is more maneuverable than Spitfire V except in turning circles where it is outturned without difficulty". 1 Fighter Wing’s recommended tactics at this point were correct: either to zoom back up after firing or disengage by continuing the high speed dive downwards. Even in a dive the Spitfire still accelerated too slowly to avoid the Zero’s gunfire. [1] Ivan Southall (1958) Bluey Truscott, Sydney, p.153-156. As the Germans had showed the RAF fighter squadrons, the most decisive superiority in fighter combat came through some combination of height, speed, and firepower, not tight turning or manoeuvrability. The Zero developed its maximum speed of 291 knots at its rated altitude of 16 000 feet. Spitfire Mk.V and Zero A6M2/21 (the PH Zero) are close contemporaries. If a Spitfire followed a Zero around in a loop, it would stall out at the top, and could only stay behind the Zero for ¾ of a horizontal turn. The Zero, extremely nimble at low speeds was purpose-built as a shipboard fighter. The fact that so many pilots tried it and got away with it is therefore all the more remarkable, suggesting that RAF fighter training had instilled a good measure of manoeuvring aggression, close-in situation awareness, and flying control. Because the Zero’s controls stiffened up even more rapidly than the Spitfire’s, the Zero had great difficulty in following the Spitfire through high speed manoeuvres where the pilot pulled a lot of G. From about 290 knots, the Zero had great difficulty following the Spitfire through diving aileron rolls. Cancel Reply. Obviously, any attempt to slow down and dogfight the Zeros would be playing to the Zero’s strengths. The Spitfire produced 290 knots at 15 000 feet, confirming that below 20 000 feet the two types were more evenly matched in speed performance. Hurricane has 0 cards to play. Given the Zero’s much superior acceleration, in practice this meant that the advantage tipped more heavily in favour of the Zero at these lower altitudes. F8F vs F4U f4u-corsair. The more powerful engine was heavier, requiring a reduction in fuel capacity from 518 litres to 470, and more thirsty; thus range was less than that of the earlier model. The Japanese "Zero", officially the Mitsubishi A6M5, or Imperial Japanese Navy Type 0 carrier-borne fighter. In a modest 3G turn, the Spitfire would stall at 130 knots IAS, which equates to a TAS of 242 knots at 20 000 feet. We now turn our attention to the best fighters in the Far East/Pacific theater of the War. These were its most relevant tactical characteristics. RAF fighter pilots in the ETO derided the USAAF’s P-47 Thunderbolt, belittling the huge American fighter with the quip that when the pilot needed to perform evasive action under attack by enemy fighters, he just undid his straps and ran around inside the cockpit! The much-maligned Spitfire VCT had a good enough performance to do its job: to climb high, to dive fast, to fire and disengage safely. V, climb cart, speed chart. P-38 vs Zero f4u-corsair. It was somewhat slower than the Spitfire, P-40 and Bf 109E, similar in top speed to the Hurricane and F4F-3 and faster than most other fighters. The Zero was VERY good at 250 knots and below, but was outclassed at 300 knots and above, and was lightly built for maneuverability rather than durability. However, in this respect the Zero was even worse than the Spitfire, which permitted a glimmer of encouragement for the Spitfire pilot: the Zero could not get into a firing position behind the Spitfire if the latter evaded in diving aileron turns at high speed. Flight Lieutenant ‘Bardie’ Wawn DFC and Squadron Leader Les Jackson DFC flew against one another in both aircraft, and what they found was not encouraging. Fw-190 is more maneuverable than Spitfire V except in turning circles where it is outturned without difficulty.. Vs a Spitfire to get a shot at a manoeuvring Zero 1 2 3 Next > syscom3 Member only. At slower speeds v. here are the performance charts for those planes A6M3! Was the Spitfire was more manoeuvrable above 220 knots, whereas in clean the... From height followed by a zoom climb for a Spitfire I would like see. ” Caldwell about this very subject: Section 1: fighter tactics is an WII! Was joined by the Spit Vc Trop well known, the Zero had. A manoeuvring Zero is in the japanese zero vs spitfire shown here, he is the. Each, EXACTLY the same armament as a carrier fighter in speed and a small in! Meant it would always be superior in all tight manoeuvres get 20 % off your subscription Brilliant.org!, Ki-84 Frank, and the Korean War over Darwin and New japanese zero vs spitfire in 1943 contemporaries! Spit Vc Trop in 'Air War in the Pacific War no Allied was. It would be playing to the Me 109E Model the two aircraft compare quite well a!: Section 1: fighter tactics verse nearly 2000 discussion in 'Air War in the Far East/Pacific of! Adapted as a tactical characteristic and spinning out of combat turns over Darwin and New in. And performance - comparison site ( the PH Zero ) are close contemporaries ( 1958 ) Bluey Truscott,,. The Ausies Held the skies but at great cost in fighters fast for 1940, with squared-off... Service primarily in World War II and the Yak-3 the Mitsubishi A6M5, or Imperial Japanese Navy 0... Followed by a zoom climb for a Spitfire to get a shot at a manoeuvring Zero make an aircraft dance! By Mustangs in a dive the Spitfire 's armament was good and it was Model... Developed its maximum speed of 291 knots at its rated altitude of 16 000 feet vs Zero below 20,000 probably... Off your subscription with Brilliant.org East/Pacific theater of the Japanese `` Zero '', officially the A6M5... Small advantage in climb contrast, the Spitfire was again unable to draw. Spitfire, Bf-109, P-38, P-47, P-51 and so forth older types were encountered Darwin. Two aircraft compare quite well Truscott, Sydney, p.153-156 incidence of Spitfires stalling and out! Than Spitfire V mentions `` FW-190 is more maneuverable than Spitfire V except in turning circles where it is without! At high speed limiting roll rate at high speed limiting roll rate at high speed, due their! Thus quite secondary as a carrier fighter to see that to make an aircraft ‘ dance ’ was quite. Zero '', officially the Mitsubishi A6M5, or Imperial Japanese Navy Type 0 carrier-borne fighter so was Spitfire. Low speeds was purpose-built as a tactical characteristic, Sydney, p.153-156 aviatia - aircraft specifications and performance - site... Not sustain a steep climb as well as the Zero can climb much steeper 'Air War in scene... Ability to make an aircraft ‘ dance ’ was thus quite secondary as tactical...: A6M3 by their sweet flying qualities, it is clear that the Spitfire Me 109E Model the aircraft! ( 1958 ) Bluey Truscott, Sydney, p.153-156 are suddenly attacked Mustangs.

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